Defunkd

[Glz01]

I have my doubts but I need confirmation on this shirt. Seller refuse to refund and unfortunately I’ve waited over 30 days on PayPal to report it as ”not as described”

eBay seller refuse to refund.

However. Here’s picture of the shirt. I’m convinced it’s fake but would appreciate some second opinions. Thank you

27 x 28

[jimmyj]

The Made in China Brockum does not mean it's fake, I know many people think that.

What's the pit to pit though I think the one you added is a typo....or it's basically a square.

[Glz01]

The Made in China Brockum does not mean it's fake, I know many people think that.

What's the pit to pit though I think the one you added is a typo....or it's basically a square.

I went and remeasured and it’s actually correct

[jimmyj]

Whoa, so that makes zero sense. 27" pit to pit - so it's a 54" inch chest? for an M, in the 90s?

Likely a tag install, check the back and where the tag is for tampering.

[Glz01]

Whoa, so that makes zero sense. 27" pit to pit - so it's a 54" inch chest? for an M, in the 90s?

Likely a tag install, check the back and where the tag is for tampering.

Hi Jimmy, see attached

[jimmyj]

Looks like some odd thread activity in that back part, but pretty well done. I can't think of any other explanation for that measurement with that tag, and based on that chest measurement alone, I could never pass this.

Who even makes a 27" chest t-shirt to this day?

[Glz01]

Looks like some odd thread activity in that back part, but pretty well done. I can't think of any other explanation for that measurement with that tag, and based on that chest measurement alone, I could never pass this.

Who even makes a 27" chest t-shirt to this day?

Maybe finally some love for the big boys?
Jones aside, I think the tee is f’ed.. EBay seller won’t refund. PayPal won’t refund; eBay won’t refund. So I’m doomed with this

[jimmyj]

I am hearing a lot of nightmare stories about eBay / PayPal not refunding buyers for fake tees.

Can you tell me a bit more about what each of them are saying?

[Glz01]

I am hearing a lot of nightmare stories about eBay / PayPal not refunding buyers for fake tees.

Can you tell me a bit more about what each of them are saying?

eBay just forwards to open a claim on eBay because of the 30 days delivery policy. I mean it’s still a counterfeit after 40 - 50 days - 1 year. I posted all info onto PayPal to get the buyers protection but they just claim it’s been delivered ”over 30 days ago” so they can’t do anything about it. The seller just refused refund and doesn’t reply to any private messages (he had good feedback and a lot of items on his page)
I’ll try call PayPal tomorrow and see if they can open the case. I mean it’s still a counterfeit product however you twist and turn the case so we’ll see. But a lot of stuff regarding the yre just doesn’t check out. It shouldn’t matter whenever I open a case. If it’s a counterfeit it’s a counterfeit. It will not turn legit after a ”vesting”

[jimmyj]

Ya definitely call and reopen. Get them on the phone let us know what happens. We have another person reporting that they just look for any loopholes they can to avoid refunds. I think with PayPal you have up to 180 days right? Is the seller on IG?

[Glz01]

Ya definitely call and reopen. Get them on the phone let us know what happens. We have another person reporting that they just look for any loopholes they can to avoid refunds. I think with PayPal you have up to 180 days right? Is the seller on IG?

I called PayPal now and we actually changed and manage to open the case again. They said change the reason of claim to item not received. Then it’s covered by 180 days buyer protection.
Because he shipped a counterfeit product marketed as authentic.

I would need some more reference to provide PayPal that it’s not authentic. So if anyone can provide some LC it would be great.

He’s a seller on eBay: loyola1235

[jimmyj]

Use this thread.

- The chest measurement, at 27", is impossible for a t-shirt that purports to be from the 1990s, especially since it's labeled as an M, which rarely goes beyond 20" pit to pit.

Here is a database of legit Brockum tags they can compare the chest sizes:

https://www.defunkd.com/brand/brockum/

In the field of t-shirt authentication, we don't really need to go beyond the simple test above, as it failed instantly, and suggests that someone installed a genuine tag into a reproduction t-shirt in order to trick potential customers.

But, for the sake of argument, I also compared the print and it's a terrible reproduction.

Then I consulted an Sonic Yout expert who runs: https://www.instagram.com/soniclife.archive/
(and is also a vintage t-shirt expert), here is his response:

"Fake. It’s not even a good boot. That green stain [at the bottom of the print] comes an original shirt it’s a scan."

This is, without a shadow of a doubt, a counterfeit t-shirt.

[Glz01]

Use this thread.

- The chest measurement, at 27", is impossible for a t-shirt that purports to be from the 1990s, especially since it's labeled as an M, which rarely goes beyond 20" pit to pit.

Here is a database of legit Brockum tags they can compare the chest sizes:

https://www.defunkd.com/brand/brockum/

In the field of t-shirt authentication, we don't really need to go beyond the simple test above, as it failed instantly, and suggests that someone installed a genuine tag into a reproduction t-shirt in order to trick potential customers.

But, for the sake of argument, I also compared the print and it's a terrible reproduction.

Then I consulted an Sonic Yout expert who runs: https://www.instagram.com/soniclife.archive/
(and is also a vintage t-shirt expert), here is his response:

"Fake. It’s not even a good boot. That green stain [at the bottom of the print] comes an original shirt it’s a scan."

This is, without a shadow of a doubt, a counterfeit t-shirt.

Thank you Jimmy, I will forward this conversation to PayPal. Again thank you

[Glz01]

I have my doubts but I need confirmation on this shirt. Seller refuse to refund and unfortunately I’ve waited over 30 days on PayPal to report it as ”not as described”

eBay seller refuse to refund.

However. Here’s picture of the shirt. I’m convinced it’s fake but would appreciate some second opinions. Thank you

27 x 28

PayPal decided to side with the seller because the item was delivered. He won’t respond to any request or questions I have so I urge all of you to stay away from this seller

https://www.ebay.com/usr/loyola1235

[jimmyj]

Sorry to hear. I keep hearing story after story about eBay siding with corrupt sellers.

How long ago did you buy it?

Spotted a few other fakes among their stuff.

Do you want us to cover it on IG? Do you have screenshots of their official reply, ignoring the fact that it's been deemed a fake?

[Glz01]

Sorry to hear. I keep hearing story after story about eBay siding with corrupt sellers.

How long ago did you buy it?

Spotted a few other fakes among their stuff.

Do you want us to cover it on IG? Do you have screenshots of their official reply, ignoring the fact that it's been deemed a fake?

Yes it sucks. I paid a lot for the tee. eBay just says it beyond the 30 days protection and forwards me to PayPal. PayPal says the item was delivered therefore they side with the seller. But the seller claimed to have shipped and authentic shirt (see screenshot) and as we have concluded here it’s counterfeit.

When I opened the case it was 43 day after I received the shirt.

Feel free to repost. I don’t want any other buyer to experience this through the seller. 0 understanding of the situation and doesn’t want to communicate or find a solution. Just overall not a nice guy.

[jimmyj]

That's ridiculous, so the person shipping can put a pile of poop in an envelope, and if it shows as delivered, everything is ok? They don't honor items not described?

Maybe the sellers has the upper hand, I see they have stuff set to no returns. I recently started selling again on eBay and was surprised to see that's an option for sellers.

I can't remember, did you get them on the phone?

Can you go to eBay? this is linked from the "Seller doesn't accept returns"

https://pages.ebay.com/buyer-protection/m-app-ebp.html

[jimmyj]

Follow-up from: l***g- Feedback followed up by buyer.- Feedback followed up by buyer.
BEWARE. Sold counterfeit product and doesn’t want to take responsibility because he ”doesn’t do returns” Stay away from this seller. His feedback means nothing.

[Glz01]

That's ridiculous, so the person shipping can put a pile of poop in an envelope, and if it shows as delivered, everything is ok? They don't honor items not described?

Maybe the sellers has the upper hand, I see they have stuff set to no returns. I recently started selling again on eBay and was surprised to see that's an option for sellers.

I can't remember, did you get them on the phone?

Can you go to eBay? this is linked from the "Seller doesn't accept returns"

https://pages.ebay.com/buyer-protection/m-app-ebp.html

Tried to go through eBay first. But they only have 30 days protection. So they couldn’t do anything. I tried to report the seller/listing since he’s selling counterfeit product but they just got back to me saying ”their investigation showed the items are allowed on the marketplace.”

Yes that’s me leaving feedback

[Glz01]

That's ridiculous, so the person shipping can put a pile of poop in an envelope, and if it shows as delivered, everything is ok? They don't honor items not described?

Maybe the sellers has the upper hand, I see they have stuff set to no returns. I recently started selling again on eBay and was surprised to see that's an option for sellers.

I can't remember, did you get them on the phone?

Can you go to eBay? this is linked from the "Seller doesn't accept returns"

https://pages.ebay.com/buyer-protection/m-app-ebp.html

No. They just said item was delivered because the tracking said delivered. I tried to argument and say I didn’t get what I ordered etc but they didn’t care. Just because it says delivered the order is ”completed”

It’s really weird tbh..

[jimmyj]

Oh, I thought that was another person's feedback.

The Ozzy tattoo shirt that's up in their listings is fake. This is a case of sprinkling in fakes among real stuff to throw people off.

Interesting, so the clock is ticking with eBay, have to report quickly or then it reverts to PayPal who almost always screw people and say no. I have another user reporting similar stuff on IG, saying that no matter what proof he provides, it's fake, they don't care.

Sorry to hear man, I'm trying to think on a IG post about all of these experiences, to give people the heads up - so I might check back in.

Did you pay a lot?

[Glz01]

Oh, I thought that was another person's feedback.

The Ozzy tattoo shirt that's up in their listings is fake. This is a case of sprinkling in fakes among real stuff to throw people off.

Interesting, so the clock is ticking with eBay, have to report quickly or then it reverts to PayPal who almost always screw people and say no. I have another user reporting similar stuff on IG, saying that no matter what proof he provides, it's fake, they don't care.

Sorry to hear man, I'm trying to think on a IG post about all of these experiences, to give people the heads up - so I might check back in.

Did you pay a lot?

For sure!
Well ard 700$.. so yes. Quite a lot. For me at least..

[jimmyj]

shite.

[Glz01]

shite.

New update.

PayPal denied the refund. But ebay decided to overrun the decision and took their own decision saying if I shipped back they’ll refund! (I suppose they will try get the money back from the seller)

Credit is given when credit is due. Huge shout out to eBay for coming to senses regarding this.
And thank you Jimmy for helping me along the way

[jimmyj]

YES!! Did you use this thread while discussing with them?

So, going forward, what's the best advice on this, since PayPal repeatedly denies this stuff?

Make sure to file the claim through eBay before 30 days?

What advice do you have if someone gets a shirt that's fake?

Please keep us posted how it all plays out!