Defunkd

[jimmyj]

This t-shirt was brought to my attention and I was asked if it was genuine.

Before I ramble on I'm interested to hear what do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-T-SHIRT-HAR ... 35ac456355

[Frank]

FAX usually means "facsmilie", right?

This just doesn't look right. Champion ringers like this one were commonly sold as blank. I don't think I've ever seen a Harley shirt with ringers like that, but I'm no expert.

[CRAZYBUBBA]

I've seen a ringer style Harley #1 shirt at work with a dealer customization on the back, so I definitely wouldn't rule out the shirt because it's a ringer. However, on my monitor there appears to be inconsistency in the stitching where the label is and errors in the print, both bad signs. You need a specific type of sewing machine to do over lock stitching and it's possible that it was resewn with a normal machine, or this piece slipped by quality control. Again, I can't really tell by the pic, but I've never seen another Champion shirt with shoddy stitching at the collar.

[Frank]

"I've never seen another Champion shirt with shoddy stitching at the collar."

Very good point.

[jimmyj]

Here's some photos of the piece in question. Wanted to add them here because the listing will eventually fall off the system.

Also, the description...which contains something pretty odd:

A

VINTAGE HARLEY DAVIDSON T-SHIRT.

IT IS USED

IN GOOD CONDITION NO HOLE NO STAINS

(PLEASE SEE PICTURES)

WHITE WITH PRINT ON BACK AND FRONT

AND IS FROM A SMOKE FREE/PET FREE HOME.

AND MEASURES APPROXIMATELY

22" FROM ARMPIT TO ARMPIT

AND 26" FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

The last photo in the series is taken from Wyco's listing of the same shirt.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VTG-HARLEY-DAVIDSON ... 3cb0733f8f

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Wow, it's night and day. The shirt has some novelty value but $266 must be a record for a repro. I propose a new segment for the Defunkd blog "repro report", it'd help us identify and (more importantly) not purchase fakes.

I don't get what's off about the description. Any clue?

[jimmyj]

Ok here's my spiel. When I first looked at it I thought, this has to be real, it's far to intricate to fake. But if you were going to go through the trouble, this sought after print would definitely be a candidate for a return on the investment of time.

For this to be fake it means that a shirt has been assembled from scratch using a fabric with this Harley print screened on it. Putting together a t-shirt from scratch is no easy task especially since the ringers would provide an extra challenge. Plus, the arm fabric/printing is an issue, so a pro seamstress must have been involved.

First point of interest was the print, like you said, it's way off. At first glance I thought, that's just because it's old and has lost print quality - but that's not true. In this case the ink is actually much thicker indicative of the poor resolution that comes from copying from an existing print. There's also a thin white area between the border and its contents that isn't on an original. And this is screen printed, it's not a t-shirt machine job, or an ink stamp - given the ink doesn't bleed through to the back of the shirt.

The shoddy seams you brought up is also a good point.

The tag - it's way off center...a bad job was done in sewing it on. More importantly the tag also indicates a size L...so let's compare its measurements to

WYCO'S CHAMPION XL - PIT TO PIT: 20 in.

FAKE'S CHAMPION L - 22" FROM ARMPIT TO ARMPIT

Why would a Champion L be 2" larger than an XL? This is compounded when we factor in Wyco's is deadstock and hasn't been washed and the other one has. Are there any vintage XL's from the 70s that are 22"?

Wyco weighed in and said he has never seen a 100% cotton version of this shirt either. But admittedly they are also rare, so he's only seen a handful of them.

It also seems to me like these shirts would all be manufactured the same way. But the torso side seam is on different sides, Wyco's is on the left of the body when worn, the other version is on the right.

[FreshBaby]

I agree, no way a vintage large from the 70's is 22" from pit to pit. Even NOS I don't think would be more than 21"

[CRAZYBUBBA]

True! I hadn't considered the sizing at all! I guess I'm just excited to see any vintage shirt in a size that I can wear :S

[hermosavtg]

Other circumstantial knocks against the authenticity of this t-shirt:

-Seller location: southern california, home to more than a few known vintage counterfeiting scoundrels.

-Check out his other items:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0507222969
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0491312742
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0493399244 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0501711012 (seen this one in person and it seemed very fishy)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=15687

[jimmyj]

Good eye. How did you access those items?

Two more sought after vintage Harley t-shirts with a 22" chest? And keeping all the items private? come on.

[jimmyj]

Here's more photos from this seller's previous listings - both shirts have 22" chests. Incentive to be extra careful when purchasing these designs.

[hermosavtg]

Terapeak! An invaluable tool for the pro ebayer!

[hermosavtg]

Stumbled upon this listing http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0685910657

[jimmyj]

what the eff is that? I guess the new trend is to write a name on both the tag and the shirt...it helps legitimize the piece and makes a connection between a tag sewn in to a foreign shirt?

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Not even close. He'd be better off cutting off the hem/sleeves and selling it as a reconstructed garment.

[TheMilkMan]

I remember coming across that shirt in one of my searches. Some excellent craftsmanship going on. the initials thing is like the total sign of it being authentic, going to get me some junk food shirts now and start initialing them, i mean making them original hahaha!

[jimmyj]

new faker?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-HARLEY-DAVI ... 0714006265

to his credit this guy is labeling certain ones REPROS in the listing. however, given he's obviously a vintage dealer - it's deceptive to put repros among true vintage items and not list it in the title of the auction - it's obviously paying off given people are paying $50-400 for them.

here's some shirts he has labeled as REPROS - so beware of these designs.

[jimmyj]

In summary here are the account names of the seller's we've noticed distributing repro harley and champion tees - photos have appeared earlier in this thread.

Please post any suspicious items you come across.

drdt4

http://shop.ebay.com/drdt4/m.html

crazzyfreddy

http://shop.ebay.com/crazzyfreddy/m.htm ... 4340.l2562

kurokuni

http://shop.ebay.com/kurokuni/m.html?_t ... 4340.l2562

[StivTaters]

nice work my mang! as always

[vulturevtg]

I have bought repro jeans, souvenir jackets from "crazzyfreddy" in the past and he has delivered... he's a good seller - but you definitely need to know what your buying, his negatives come from people assuming and not knowing their stuff and/or reading carefully - if it seems too good to be true... it probably is - CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!

[jimmyj]

I disagree - he's not a "good seller."

Yes he peddles true garments too, but I don't think doing any business with vintage terrorists is a good idea. It was only recently that Fred started listing the shirts as reproductions - and the prices he's getting are based on misleading bidders. You should not have to read carefully to find out an item isn't actually vintage - it shouldn't be listed as vintage and it should have REPRO in the TITLE. Bidders are assuming he's selling vintage because of the other items in his store and his past transactions.

Shysters like these guys can't be trusted. They're hurting the vintage market - why support them? We've been digging around about them, it's not just fake t-shirts they are selling - so if you've got an embroidered souvenir/tour/car jacket that you thought was vintage - think again.

More details on this to follow.

[jimmyj]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Harley-Davidson-T-s ... 2a117c8dcf

[CRAZYBUBBA]

How expensive could it be to buy an sewing machine that does proper overlock stitching?

[jimmyj]

They are pretty standard these days and not that expensive - when we were doing DIY for women my seamstress had one. Whom ever is creating these (we've been told it's a Japanese guy in Thailand) I'm sure he has a full-on production line.