Defunkd

[Vendetta]

Now, I am sure we all can debate on what might possibly be the Holy Grail of all vintage tees and surely we could get some great answers. But, in this post I want to talk about "age." What is the oldest printed t-shirt out there? I mean printed t-shirts didn't really go into production until the late 40s early 50s so finding anything prior to that time line would be rare and almost impossible, correct?

Here is a few things I have found online:

"The Smithsonian Institute displays the oldest printed shirt on record, emblazoned with the phrase "Dew-It with Dewey" from New York Governor Thomas E. Dewey's 1948 presidential campaign."

"It wasn't until the late 1930s that companies including Hanes, Sears & Roebuck, and Fruit of the Loom earnestly started to market the T-shirt."

So with all this being said, I leave you with what I happened to unearth two weeks ago...A 1938 Soap Box Derby vintage tee. Here is the small amount of research I've done:

-Blackwell Tribune is a newspaper in Blackwell, Oklahoma USA
-In the city of Blackwell they have had a yearly soap box derby dating back to the first in 1934.

This gives a little validity and authentication of this tee and puts it at the 4th annual soap box derby.

So what do you think it is worth?

[jimmyj]

Hmmmmm very interesting, sweet find. The label strikes me as being a little ahead of it's time for 1938, how is it fastened...what material is it? If it's a true article from the 30s and not a throwback shirt from later decades, anywhere from $200 to a couple grand even. You should contact the paper, they might be interested in acquiring it. But eBay would be a good place for it - and you could notify the upper brass of the newspaper it's for sale. You pretty much always get fair market value for items of this nature. Let me know if you auction it.

[bandito]

Cool shirt.but I think they got the 8 and the 3 the wrong way round.

[Vendetta]

Thanks Jimmy for your thoughts. The label is fastened by single stitch on the left and right side of the tag. The tag itself feels like papery cotton and it seems to be a printed tag. (The words Sport Shirt are not stitched.) As for the shirt itself it feels like a lightweight cotton. The letters 'Blackwell Tribune' seem to be ironed on, but the soap box derby logo and year seems to be printed. Also in the logo the red vertical stripes seem to be the same material as the lettering of 'Blackwell Tribune' just more worn.

I don't see this shirt being a throwback by any means. I know there is to be some skeptics out there, but I truly believe this is the real deal and would even stake my reputation on that statement.

Also, I bought this shirt an estate sale in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The couple that lived past away about five years ago. And their son (who is 65 years of age) took me to the basement and that is where I found this shirt. Being that the man was 65 could put his dad as a young boy around the 30s.

Here is an interesting link on ebay. Another Soap Box Derby shirt from the 50's. Notice how all the words on the shirt are all printed and the logo is bigger in size.
http://bit.ly/9gX5b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm going to continue researching this shirt, but I promise to post any more info I find out on this thread.

Cheers!

PS Bandito...There is 100% no way this shirt was printed in 1983.

[jimmyj]

nice! So I take it the base of the shirt would be mass printed and then each event would customize it with their own stuff?

the final test would be to drink from it, if you turn in to a skeleton shortly afterward...it isn't the holy grail of t-shirts.

[Vendetta]

You are spot on Jimmy. I also believe they were mass printed and then sent to the cities which were participating in the derby.

Click the history tab from this link for more info: http://www.aasbd.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (I will be contacting them as well.)

Lastly, well played on the Indiana Jones reference!

"But choose wisely, for while the true Grail will bring you life, the false Grail will take it from you."

[jimmyj]

Cool! Both cars are #7 but I noticed there's slight variation as far as the design to the car too...which can help pre-date it to the 50s version on ebay. Car related Americana can be pretty valuable...although...not sure if soap box's apply.

[bandito]

Thanks Jimmy for your thoughts. The label is fastened by single stitch on the left and right side of the tag. The tag itself feels like papery cotton and it seems to be a printed tag. (The words Sport Shirt are not stitched.) As for the shirt itself it feels like a lightweight cotton. The letters 'Blackwell Tribune' seem to be ironed on, but the soap box derby logo and year seems to be printed. Also in the logo the red vertical stripes seem to be the same material as the lettering of 'Blackwell Tribune' just more worn.

I don't see this shirt being a throwback by any means. I know there is to be some skeptics out there, but I truly believe this is the real deal and would even stake my reputation on that statement.

Also, I bought this shirt an estate sale in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The couple that lived past away about five years ago. And their son (who is 65 years of age) took me to the basement and that is where I found this shirt. Being that the man was 65 could put his dad as a young boy around the 30s.

Here is an interesting link on ebay. Another Soap Box Derby shirt from the 50's. Notice how all the words on the shirt are all printed and the logo is bigger in size.
http://bit.ly/9gX5b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm going to continue researching this shirt, but I promise to post any more info I find out on this thread.

Cheers!

PS Bandito...There is 100% no way this shirt was printed in 1983.

Why would anyone sew an 80's style label into a '30's shirt?

[lord ched]

Because it might not be an 80's label. The 1980s were the beginning of the mania for retro-imitation- postmodernism, isn't it called? - where the styles of the past were ransacked and re-sold to current consumers: the reason it looks like an 80's tag is because it's the original referent being imitated by the Reagan-era copies. "Sport Shirt" is a very nonspecific label name that could have happened in any time period (the 80s would have something far cutesier), and it's in black and white- an 80s tag would have more than one colour, likely pastels.

[Johnny65]

Throwing in my 2 cents.

In my humble opinion. No way that tee is from 1938.

To me the generic printed tag, construction of the garment and the overall condition indicate this piece is not 72 years old.

Sorry.

[Vendetta]

Lord Ched: Thanks for 'ched'-ing some light on the subject of tags.

Bandito & Johnny65: Honestly, thank you for your input. Unfortunately, we live in a day and age where not only is there repo-vintage shirts, but even dishonest vintage sellers that screen print on older t-shirts. (I don't believe we need to name names)

Here are my thoughts... At least to my knowledge printing older "years" on clothing didn't really start happening until the late 80s. (I might be wrong, but that is my assumption) Unless it was an anniversary or a class reunion tee. And I'm not talking about copyright years like with Snoopy shirts that say 1950 or 60 something, but with regards of a big printed year on the shirt. Secondly, the shape of this shirt looks like the letter T which makes me believe at least 60s or pre-60s. If that is the case (which I don't see this shirt being produced anywhere post 60s) then it doesn't make sense for any screen printer in the 60s or 50s to print an older year like 1938 on a tee. It just wasn't something that was done. (At least to my knowledge) And if it was "true" that someone printed this even in the 70s or earlier why do it on a boys tee that measures 15x21 and have the 'Blackwell Tribune' on it. Obviously, it has been worn by some kid from all the dirt stains. Maybe the story went down like this...

(Pick the scenario year between 1950-1975)
*Christmas*
Dad: Open the package junior.
Son: A t-shirt???
Dad: Not only a t-shirt, a throwback tee from 1938 Soap Box Derby that I was at when I was your age.
Son: What's a throwback, pa?
Dad: Don't worry...it will be trendy when you have kids.

*The next school day*
School Boy: Nice old shirt!
Son: It's not old it's new!
School Boys: Ha Ha! Junior is wearing his pa's old t-shirt!
Son: I swear it's new, I just swear it!
School Boy: Let's kick his ass!!
Other School Boys: Ya!!!!

The shirt was then stuffed away never to be worn or washed again. The End.

.....



Would love for others to weigh in on the subject of this tee, skeptic or not. Cheers!

"You stood up to be counted with the enemies of everything the Grail stands for! Who gives a damn what you believe?"

This picture I found online yesterday dating July 23rd 1938. Maybe this gives a little more validation that the shirt could have been printed this far back.

[jimmyj]

Ha, nice one V.

I agree the tag is odd....but I think it's the real deal. The research all backs it up. We now have photographic evidence, what more do we need, actually, aside from a time machine, what more could we even ask for? Carbon dating in a lab I guess.

I think we're all jaded because of the jerks who have duped us and the rest of the vintage world. Lets have a group hug.

So what will become of this controversial shirt?

[Johnny65]

Great post everyone!

Best regards -

John/Black Market Vintage

[jimmyj]

Hey - I didn't realize you had a blog, adding it to my blogroll now.

[bandito]

I am still sceptical.All items I have seen/handled from this period tend to have embroidered lables,not printed.This seemed to carry through to the 60's and beyond.Of course,the number of pieces I have seen is limited by the fact of them being scarce.I can't recall any printed labels from the 30's/40's but I am open to being educated.

[Johnny65]

Hey - I didn't realize you had a blog, adding it to my blogroll now.

Very cool! Thanks Jimmy.

[Vendetta]

Just a quick update. I received an email from Rin Tanaka about the shirt and just wanted to share his thoughts:

"I have seen the exactly same t-shirt you own a few years ago. Probably American printed t-shirts culture started in the 1930s, but most were sold after WWII. So this is very early rare piece. Very collectible!"

Very generous of Rin "The Master" to give me his thoughts on the tee.

In conclusion, I truly believe this shirt has been authenticated to the year printed on the shirt after weighing everyone's opinions along with the research. My guess is that they stopped printing years on these tees around 1939 (the start of WWII) so they actually could be sold post WWII or 1945. Interesting thought, eh?

Thanks again for everyone's input!

We will have the shirt for sale on April, 1st 2010 via eBay.

Cheers!

Matthew
Vendetta Vintage

[jimmyj]

I love it when a plan comes together.

Post the listing in the auction alert section and we might be able to feature it. But I would also require shots without the Vendetta water mark to do so...

[Vendetta]

Thanks Jimmy, I'll keep you posted and not a problem on the pictures.

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Is Mr. Tanaka a member of the forum? Or did he contact you from elsewhere?

[Vendetta]

He contacted me via e-mail.

[Vendetta]

This shirt will be up tonight at 5:00PST for a 10 day auction on ebay.

[sazzvintag]

hey- what happened with this? you got me all into the thread and no closure post?! how much did it sell for??

[Vendetta]

Ended up going to Japan for $370. Would have liked to see it go for more, but was happy with the outcome.