Defunkd

[Frank]

Yo,
I sent a shirt to Alaska with delivery confirmation. 3 weeks later, the buyer emails me saying that the item did not arrive. Doublechecked the address and everything is correct. How can I protect myself? Am I better off just offering a refund and eating it or do i need to dispute something or wait for the buyer to file a dispute?
I of course can't find any help on Paypal or Ebay. The shirt went to a confirmed address using Paypal of course.

[jimmyj]

and it shows confirmed as being delivered to that address? if that's the case then you could be covered. although i've heard that even if you're evidence is rock solid ebay will typically always go in favor of the person filing the claim, because they care more about their buyers.

You can just wait until they file and dispute and there's details you can enter. but then of course the buyer is upset at that point.

what i would do is assure the buyer that they will be refunded, buy say, "lets work together on this and get Paypal insurance to pay for it since I also have proof that it was delivered" encourage them to file a paypal claim on the item so you can both file your information and no one loses. That way you avoid them doing it on their your own out of spite and it seems more of a team effort against a corporation rather than him versus you. Then even if they go in his favor...at least he wont be bitter and leave you negative feedback too.

[Frank]

Thanks, i think this is the way I am going to go (paypal ins claim)

[CRAZYBUBBA]

I'd never refund outright because recovering the funds later can be a hassle. you can look up the postmaster on USPS and file a claim, they'll try to locate the package. Things probably take longer to get to Alaska due to the distance.

[TheMilkMan]

Had the same thing happen to me recently. Item shows as delivered on the tracking page but the buyer claimed he did not receive it. Paypal and Ebay sided with me of course but I got negative feedback because the guy was a dumbass. Hope this helps.

[jimmyj]

It is very possible a package is said to be delivered and it doesn't arrive. It happened to me not to long ago, bought a shirt from those in Hoboken and Haberdashery guys, and it never showed, but the tracking said it did. I'm out one Marky Mark t-shirt.

[maiden87]

Been done like that to i sent a kiss love gun box set to alaska and it was confirmed it was delivered but buyer insisted he didnt get it.After a dispute he came forth and said he recived it.Made me look like i was ripping guy off when i was really being honest and ebay does kinda doubt ya sometimes when ya dont got alot of feedback.

[Frank]

all's well that ends well- it was delivered to a neighboring igloo

[Fatandyz]

I recently sold a shirt to a buyer in the UK. I mailed it international priority mail. Buyer claimed he never received. I called the customer service for the USPS...they told me basically I was SOL. Not only am I out the vintage tee, I had to refund the $100+ to the buyer.

I shipped another international item out today. This time I used registered mail with return receipt. I don't want to stop selling to international buyers, but it really bites having to refund payment an item you no longer have.

[Frank]

I have a case opened against me by a cat in Thailand and another Thai bidder looking for shirts that are probably held in Customs there, so beware.

Is there a cost effective way to prove delivery to International ebayers? Is registered mail with delivery receipt the only way or will adding insurance to every international buyer the only way to go?

[willitwas0]

Hey FRANK, is the buyer from Thailand "administraterlee"?

[Frank]

Yep, how'd you know? Are you having the same problem? He asked for a full friggin' refund rather than escalating or going through Paypal.

[willitwas0]

Yep! Me and at least five other sellers this month. I sold "administraterlee" a primo 3D Emblem, which shipped on 6/05/2010. Less than three weeks later "lee" has a case against me and wants a full refund. Ebay, of course, sided with the buyer and said I needed to give him a full refund. What a bunch of shit! I'm out $54.00 and sweet Truckers Only t shirt!
We should get in contact with the other sellers that have been defrauded by AL and see if we can do a sort of class action against this shit and get our money back!

PS did you look through AL's feedback? If not, take a look at June 5th. You know the old saying "If it's free, it's for administraterlee!"

[CRAZYBUBBA]

I propose a new thread dedicated soley to Blocked bidder List candidates and the reason for blocking them.

[Frank]

I'm considering blocking Thailand altogether.

[willitwas0]

I just did

[Frank]

Your results may vary, but sometimes it helps to complain:


Customerbulldogvintage
Initial Question/Comment: Item Not Received
9:47:06 PM SystemSystem
Thank you for contacting eBay Live Help!
9:47:06 PM SystemSystem
Jasper P. has joined this session!
9:47:06 PM SystemSystem
Connected with Jasper P.
9:47:10 PM AgentJasper P.
Hi, my name is Jasper. Thank you for contacting eBay's Live Help for Top Customer Care.
9:48:38 PM Customerbulldogvintage
I have a buyer who has escalated a case who has filed cases against of number of buyers for "not receiving" items. Does eBay look at the buyer's history when investigating these claims?
9:49:42 PM Customerbulldogvintage
The buyer has filed claims against a number of sellers, i mean
9:49:51 PM AgentJasper P.
I am sorry to hear the buyer opened a claim for not receiving an item. We do investigate cases that are opened, and monitor the percentage of cases for buyer abuse. Just to be sure I understood you correctly, your concern is the opened case for the item not being received. Is that right?
9:50:16 PM AgentJasper P.
How do you know the buyer has filed previous claims, that is not something we have public.
9:51:00 PM Customerbulldogvintage
I am part of a vintage clothing sellers' forum and he has filed "not received" claims against a number of other sellers
9:52:12 PM AgentJasper P.
I can see all claims opened by the buyer, and will be happy to review the situations. Lets start by reviewing your open case. While we are reviewing the case were there any other questions I can help you with today?
9:52:22 PM Customerbulldogvintage
no

...
9:56:12 PM AgentJasper P.
I show that the case was opened, and you provided tracking for the item. Though the tracking only shows information received.
9:57:32 PM AgentJasper P.
With item not received cases we go off the tracking of the item.
9:57:52 PM AgentJasper P.
The best way a seller can protect their business is to always send with tracking, or risk a lost item.
9:58:22 PM AgentJasper P.
I will be happy to review the buyer for a history of cases, though without proof of delivery the buyer is protected.
9:58:57 PM Customerbulldogvintage
ok, so how can i prove delivery to Thailand or can the buyer just lie every time?
9:59:38 PM AgentJasper P.
I recommend looking into international shipping options that provide tracking, like express through USPS.
10:00:04 PM Customerbulldogvintage
thanks
10:00:07 PM AgentJasper P.
I want to always make sure a seller is covered, and I see that a case opened against you is rare.
10:00:50 PM Customerbulldogvintage
I just don't think it's right to allow someone to steal, which is what this buyer seems to be doing.
10:02:04 PM AgentJasper P.
I can not tell you the action I can take on the buyer, or the amount of cases they have opened. I am a seller on the site as well, and want to make sure buyers abusing the site are removed.
10:02:09 PM AgentJasper P.
I will fully review the buyer's history and take action.
10:02:13 PM Customerbulldogvintage
thanks
10:03:18 PM AgentJasper P.
For the case, I am going to close it as a no fault.
10:03:27 PM AgentJasper P.
This will be a courtesy, and a learning experience to be careful with tracking. One moment.
10:07:08 PM AgentJasper P.
I have closed the case as a no fault. So we will refund the buyer, though not ask you to refund eBay or the buyer.
10:07:38 PM Customerbulldogvintage
great, thanks a lot
10:08:08 PM AgentJasper P.
Your welcome. You are a great seller, and member, I want to make sure you are taken care of as well.
10:08:08 PM AgentJasper P.
I just want to quickly recap what we have went over in the chat today, to ensure all issues have been resolved. One moment.
10:08:32 PM AgentJasper P.
We have went over the item not received case. I will review the buyer and take appropriate action, and have closed the case as a no fault. Based off the above information do you feel the issue has been resolved?
10:08:58 PM Customerbulldogvintage
Yes, thanks

[jimmyj]

Wow! that's freakin' amazing! that's the first time I have ever felt that eBay had the sellers back. Swift justice and identifying value in the customers who pay the bills.

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Wow. That's great frank.

[StivTaters]

Yes! I'm going to get that whole chat tattooed as a full back piece.

I wish there was another option for the seller to be protected other than trying to charge international buyers $30 for express mail...

[Frank]

I was pretty shocked myself to actually have someone from eBay come down on the side of a seller. It made my day to finally win one for a change.

[Frank]

I was pretty shocked myself to actually have someone from eBay come down on the side of a seller. It made my day to finally win one for a change.

[sazzvintag]

Its never fun to turn away potential customers, but I would recommend blocking Thailand, Nigeria (duh), and Singapore.
I've had a vintage website for 10 years and those 3 places have presented me with the most attempted fraud purchases.

[hermosavtg]

There's a lot of good buyers (and a few bad ones) of vintage tees in Thailand and Singapore. I think you'd be throwing away the baby with the bathwater blocking those countries!

[sevrocs]

If you can prove that they received the item then you are good, but if you didn't go with delivery confirmation then you lose if they choose to say that they didn't get the item.