Defunkd

[waxandthreads]

Anybody really know the deal on this (sorry if I'm beating a dead horse)? I've only seen it on black NOS shirts that were 100% cotton (99% of the time a 90's shirt, but I guess most 80's shirts were 50/50). Has anybody seen it happen to a different color, different fabric content or a shirt that wasn't NOS? How about a button up shirt or polo, something other than a t-shirt? Can it be prevented based on storage conditions? I just tossed 5 killer NOS 90s punk shirts and my feelings are hurt and I'm crying.

[jimmyj]

Is that where the t-shirt can literally be torn like paper?

[waxandthreads]

Yes.

[jimmyj]

I think it's a matter of being over cured during the screen print process - and/or stored in a dry climate for decades. From what I understand - after the ink is put on a tee - it's then dried under lamps.

I've had it happen with poly/cotton too - and remember one white tee - my model put it on and then it fell apart. It was a GWAR shirt - and she was super petite and got her to model all the vintage S's - so I think it was 80s.

And both times it came from dry regions - one was stored in a garage where I'm sure it was literally cooked for 20 years. But in that same shipment I had 400 other tees stored the same way that were fine. So I think it starts with the screen printing process.

I just dumped a garbage bag FULL of GNR tees that had that issue. I kept one back so I could do a video of it. Luckily they were all Coma GNR tees that aren't all that popular.

The worst part about that is the dust it kicks up - gets all up in your nostrils. Probably toxic.

[waxandthreads]

The only thing that makes me skeptical about it happening solely because of the printing process or climate is the fact that it's almost always black shirts (I was surprised to hear you say it happened to a white one). How does NOS factor in? I've never had it happen to shirt that wasn't NOS. Wonder if the dry rot on the G&R shirts could have been prevented if they had been washed 15 years ago.

[jimmyj]

Hmmmm. I'm not 100% sure it was white, anyone else experience it with a different colour than black? Maybe something to do with the black dye? Maybe the dye corrodes it over time? And if washed, the additional dye comes out.

But if that's the case, why doesn't it happen with all black NOS tees?

Have you been stuck with a bunch of these lately? Do you see any connection with dry climates?

This question will plague mankind for all eternity.

[waxandthreads]

Got around 10 this week. 1 from New Hampshire, 1 from Illinois and a bunch from Florida. The main reason I'm so curious now is I just purchased a house with a bunch of attic space. I started packing away modern band shirts into plastic bins since I can easily store tens of thousands up there. I'd hate to open the bins up in 20 years to find them all destroyed.
We're in Tennessee, so it's pretty humid here. Last month, we put 20-30 grams of Silica Gel into each of the plastic storage bins of items we're currently selling to help keep the moisture out, but honestly I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. It's the stuff they put in shoe boxes....so I figured it was done for a reason.

[jimmyj]

Holy shit dude you are one serious seller. I'm not sure what the exact cause is, but there's some good theories floating around. Lets see if anyone chimes in with different colours.

[timetraveltees]

After years of fearing this happening to me and believing that like dry land, it could be a myth, the vintage t-shirt dry rot hit me last night.

I got some NOS black 100% Cotton New Kids on the Block shirts. We threw them through the dryer first like we always do for anything new we bring in the house, to kill any little buggies. And when we took them out of the dryer, we noticed that there was a fine and sometimes thick coating of black dust in the dryer. This has happened before with unwashed black tees, I can't remember if they were all 100% cotton or not though. But it's possible, although I know that those didn't rip (but we also didn't try to do that). Anyway, as we were pulling them out of the dryer one of the sleeves of one of the shirts literally ripped off. We looked at a couple of other ones and gave them a quick easy tug on the fabric and they all ripped right down the middle like a piece of notebook paper. Very disarming to see in front of your eyes. Like they literally seem like novelty shirts that were made to be easily ripped off a la the Hulkster.

We had about 18 of them left at this point so I decided since they were probably wasted anyway, I might as well try to wash them and see what happens then. After the cycle even more black dust was coating the washer but I didn't notice any particular brittleness to the shirts. I threw them in the dryer knowing full well that this would probably be their swan song. When the dyer finished I started pulling them out, a couple of them were ripped, still others had what looked like moth holes in them where they literally seemed like they just disintegrated. I put them down on a table to inspect them, I just did some test rips on some of them and it was the same deal. But then others didn't rip and while they seemed a little weird to the touch, they seemed to hold up fine. Possibly from another batch that weren't as overcured or something like that?

But yeah so there's about 10 left but they all left behind this odd layer of black dust so I don't know that I feel comfortable selling them necessarily because that's no fun to receive a shirt that is just flaking off black dust everywhere. Although it could be just residual dust from the ones that did rip apart and these ones would be okay? Who knows. In any case I'll probably just hang onto them and maybe try to send them through another wash cycle to see if the black dust issue subsides and if they hold up for another wash. I'm sure they're probably toast though. They're not the most valuable shirts in the world but I know they would move so it's a bummer that they're probably a loss at this point.

Anyway, just thought I'd add my experience into the mix. I doubt there's a solution to this problem, seems like as you guys said, the combo of manufacturing and storage is the culprit across the board. I just know from now on I'll keep a closer eye on any NOS I bring in to make sure I'm not throwing away money again.

[waxandthreads]

Ouch. That sucks Time Travel. NOS, black, probably early 90s (not surprised). I've noticed the feel of dry rot shirts too. Almost a little more rough to the touch and I can usually tell if it will rip before even pulling. If it's consistently with black NOS shirts, should being overcured still be considered?

[jimmyj]

Knock curing off the list - I just watched a screen printing video - it looks like they focus the heat on the design only. I assumed the whole tee was put under lamps. So if it was over curing - it would probably only be the fabric around the design.

I think the something in the dye that corrodes the fabric over time seems like the best theory thus far!

Is it strictly 90s? Strictly black tees? share you experiences. Together we can wipe out dry rot. Actually, no we can't but at least we can figure out why it happens.

Oh, one thing to add - there's a very distinctive smell to these tees - so if you're buying, sniff 'em and tug at em.

Demo video here: http://www.youtube.com/embed/FiPP5UIC6Xg

[skippyhaha]

i had my first experience with a shirt that disintegrates and can be torn like paper last month.

picked up a deadstock michael bolton 1991 black t-shirt with a hanes tag at the thrift store. it was very thin. it started disintegrating onto the other shirts next to it in the bag. i tried to soak it in white vinegar (cigarette smoke smell) and when i picked it up from the sink it was shredded! like a pile of black shreds.

very interesting comments above, i'll watch this thread for more info!

[timetraveltees]

I heard from one of my suppliers this week that had to dump about 600 black deadstock concert tees because they were all dry rotted, he's saying that there's some kind of dye/chemical on black tees specifically that needs to be washed off. It comes off naturally in the first couple of washes naturally but I guess if it doesn't get washed it corrodes over time and then it's too far gone which would explain the smell/feel/texture since the shirt has essentially just wasted away because the chemical was allowed to just sit there. So I think that's enough corroboration for me to call it basically case closed as to what the cause is. If there was some genius out there that could reverse the spell that would be something but I think that's only possible in a fantasy world.

Curing may still play a part in it but who knows for sure. Although in my experience, I grew up hanging out with friends whose dad ran a t-shirt shop and back then at least they cured them on something that essentially looked like a small/short pizza oven type deal. It had like a conveyer belt and he would put the shirts on the belt and they would go through one cycle and pop out the other side into a box. So it wasn't targeted curing at least in that respect. And I had some shirts made a while back at another t-shirt store and they did the same thing so I think that's still common. I think if you're doing them at home you just cure them with the lamp deal but in the industrial mass-produced world where these shirts come from I'd imagine they're all being done on this conveyer belt scenario. Again, who knows if it has anything to do with it at all but just another part of the puzzle I guess

[jimmyj]

Yeah seems like the black ink effecting the integrity of the fabric is the best explanation.

Did he say what year they were?

Perhaps one ink manufacturer experimented with a new formula in the early 90s - then realized the issue and removed it.

[timetraveltees]

That could be possible, it would make sense if it was a different formula or something. I guess it's hard to pin down the exact years that seem to be affected but I know I got some of the same ones that he knew were dry rotted and they were New Kids on the Block shirts from probably 1990-92 so that seems consistent with what we're seeing overall, that GNR shirt is probably early 90s as well right? The tags on mine were Hanes 50/50, the square red/white/blue one. Don't know if it's isolated to those few years or if you guys have had experience with shirts before then too

[jimmyj]

Yeah seams all early 90s. GNR was 92. 100% cotton. And now that you've said it happened with 50/50...anyone else please chime in with dates! Any before 91 or after 92...we will be able to pin down the timeframe and develop a time machine.

[waxandthreads]

This is why I love this forum!! Thanks for the input TTT.
.
Had another dry rot shirt today. 1991, NOS and black. At least it was only Rod Stewart.... but I did rip it to shreds doing a sexy strip tease for some very uninterested female co-workers. Goodbye Vagabond Heart, Hello sexual harassment case.

[timetraveltees]

Actually you know what, I misspoke, I meant that it was the Hanes red white and blue tag, but it was actually a 100% cotton version. Do we have anyone that has had it happen to a 50/50 shirt? Could be close to nailing down this sucker once and for all if it's just happening to nothing but black and 100% cotton from those few years.

[jimmyj]

Funny - in my shipment of GNR came a really weird tee. It's a whitesnake design on the front, and david bowie back (I'll post it shortly.) A part of it tore a little bit - and I thought uh oh, another one of these. But it wasn't consistently brittle - only ripped in a few parts, under the arm and a bit on the chest.

I just examined it again - it's a Spring Ford 50 50. It's see through - almost as if it's been washed many times, but it's deadstock.

And there's a black residue that comes from it.

I wonder if it's possible that the dye killed the cotton content only? Isn't that basically how threadbare tees come to be? the natural fibres wear thin over, wear, washes and dries?

This one is from 87 though.

If the dye has an effect on cotton it would have to effect 50 50 tees too.

Let's just keep reporting the years and fabric content of 'em. Hopefully we can rule out it happening to W&T's deadstock fort knox.

[blancobros]

I always thought some chemical in the finishing process was the culprit.
My dad would always make wash any new clothing we got growing up before we wore them. He knew someone who would break out in a rash/hives if they wore something without washing it first.

Also, many items have to be fumigated when being imported into the United States. I've worked in retail for many years. You could always tell which boxes came direct from the overseas manufacturer and which ones were repacked once they entered the US.
The smell of the overseas boxes had such a strong, distinct scent when you first open them. Sometimes it was so overpowering, we would leave the box to air out behind the store for a half hour or so.
In the case of NOS items, since the fumigation chemicals were never washed off, maybe they eventually cause clothing to disintegrate?

[tshirtfriend]

I too have been a victim to dry rot on several occasions. And yes, always a black tee. 100% cotton. Now this got me thinking about my 80's deadstock comic book black tees still in the packaging. I'm thinking of opening them up and washing them if its not to late.

[Johnny65]

Fairly certain Jimmy has narrowed it down.

It's a chemical in the black dye that ultimately disintegrates the fabric.

Years of extreme temperature changes would also contribute to the process.

[Inmind]

My first encounter with dry rot .... why does it have to be this shirt ugh

I’ve had this a while could tell it was NOS but thought the neck was just cut with scissors.

I live in a pretty damn humid climate on the East Coast in Norfolk Virginia and I’m not positive but I’d be willing to bet that this shirt has been here it’s whole life because after looking into where the stops were on the Nintendo Championship Tour Norfolk was one of them.

Any suggestions on selling this thing. The reissues that Hot Topic Sell don’t have Donkey Kong on the top they have Link and a cart from this tournament just sold for 100K and made big news. It’s not too ripped up but I don’t know if I am able to convey to someone that this shirt will fall apart if handled incorrectly or worn or washed.

IMG_7743.jpeg (78.3 KiB) Viewed 5819 times

IMG_6726.jpeg (132.84 KiB) Viewed 5819 times

IMG_9158.jpeg (150.18 KiB) Viewed 5819 times

[jimmyj]

sorry....ifs it rot...its....game over.